Legislature(1995 - 1996)
05/05/1995 03:35 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
May 5, 1995
3:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Rick Halford
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Lyman Hoffman
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38(FSH)
Relating to reauthorization of the Magnuson Fishery Conservation
and Management Act.
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 24(FSH)
Relating to reduction of wanton waste in North Pacific Ocean and
Bering Sea fisheries.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 207(FIN) am
"An Act relating to adjustments to royalty reserved to the state to
encourage otherwise uneconomic production of oil and gas; and
providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 141(FSH)
"An Act relating to the appointment of members of the Board of
Fisheries."
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 28
Requesting that the Federal Subsistence Board not adopt the
proposed subsistence moose hunting regulations for the Kenai
Peninsula and the customary and traditional use determination for
certain communities on the Kenai Peninsula.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HJR 38 - No previous action to record.
HJR 24 - No previous action to record.
HB 207 - See Resources minutes dated 4/22/95, 4/26/95, 4/28/95,
5/1/95, 5/3/95.
HB 141 - See Resources minutes dated 4/22/95, 5/3/95.
SJR 28 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
Cheryl Sutton, Staff to Representative Carl Moses
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Present to respond to questions on CSHJR
38(FSH) and CSHJR 24(FSH)
Representative Alan Austerman
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 141
Senator Judy Salo
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of SJR 28
Robert Bosworth, Director
Division of Subsistence
Department of Fish & Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Administration supports SJR 28
Gary Oskolkoff
Ninilchik, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered comments on SJR 28
Les Palmer
P.O. Box 631
Sterling, AK 99672
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SJR 28
Dale Bondurant
HC 1, Box 1197
Soldotna, AK 999669
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered comments on SJR 28
Theo Matthews
United Cook Inlet Drift Association
P.O. Box 4649
Kenai, AK 99611
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SJR 28 as a statement
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-57, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:35 p.m.
CSHJR 38(FSH) MAGNUSON FISHERY CONSERVATION & MGMT ACT
SENATOR LEMAN announced CSHJR 38(FSH) was before the committee for
its consideration. There being no questions or testimony on the
legislation, he asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSHJR 38(FSH) be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection, it was so
ordered.
CSHJR 24(FSH) WASTE IN PACIFIC AND BERING SEA FISHERY
SENATOR LEMAN announced CSHJR 24(FSH) was before the committee for
its consideration. There being no questions or testimony on the
legislation, he asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSHJR 24(FSH) be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection, it was so
ordered.
CSHB 207(FIN) am ADJUSTMENTS TO OIL AND GAS ROYALTIES
Number 040
SENATOR LEMAN brought CSHB 207(FIN) am before the committee as the
next order of business. He noted that at the May 3 meeting on the
legislation a Resources SCS and amendments to it were adopted, and
that Commissioner Shively of the Department of Natural Resources
indicated that the bill that resulted is one that he can accept.
SENATOR LINCOLN offered the following amendment to SCS CSHB
207(RES):
Page 5, line 1: After "application" delete "if the preliminary
findings and determination concerns a royalty increase, decrease,
or other adjustment under (1)(A) of this subsection, the
preliminary findings and determination shall also be presented to
the governor for the governor's approval or disapproval; the
governor may not delegate a determination to approve or disapprove
a preliminary findings and determination under this subparagraph;"
Page 7, line 22 after "determination" delete "and present it to the
governor for the governor's approval or disapproval; the governor
may not delegate a decision to approve or disapprove a final
findings and decision presented under this subparagraph; the
commissioner's final findings and determination regarding a royalty
increase, decrease, or other adjustment prepared under this
subparagraph, if approved by the governor, is,"
Senator Lincoln said her amendment deletes the language that
requires the approval or disapproval of the governor on a findings
and determination because she doesn't believe that the governor has
to micro-manage whether the findings are appropriate or not. It
would leave the discretion of approving or disapproving up to the
commissioner who is appointed by the governor in the first place.
Senator Lincoln moved the adoption of her amendment to SCS CSHB
207(RES). Objections were heard. The roll was taken with the
following result: Senators Hoffman and Lincoln voted "Yea" and
Senators Pearce, Halford, Frank and Leman voted "Nay." Senator
Leman stated the motion failed.
SENATOR HALFORD moved that SCS CSHB 207(RES) be passed out of
committee with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection,
it was so ordered.
CSHB 141(FSH) TERM OF FISH BOARD MEMBERS
Number 125
SENATOR LEMAN announced CSHB 141(FSH) was before the committee for
its consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE ALVIN AUSTERMAN, prime sponsor of HB 141, directed
attention to two proposed amendments to the legislation.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved the adoption of the following Amendment No. 1:
Amendment No. 1
Page 1, line 11: Delete "and until a successor is appointed and
the successor's term begins"
Hearing no objection, SENATOR LEMAN stated the amendment was
adopted.
SENATOR HOFFMAN moved the adoption of the following Amendment No.
2:
Amendment No. 2
Page 1, line 14: Delete "a vacancy" and insert "the vacancy that
will arise"
Page 2, line 1: Delete "other than by the expiration of a term"
Hearing no objection, SENATOR LEMAN stated the amendment was
adopted and the amendments would be incorporated into a Resources
SCS. He then asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR PEARCE moved that SCS CSHB 141(RES) be passed out of
committee with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection,
it was so ordered.
SJR 28 KENAI PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE PROPOSAL
SENATOR LEMAN introduced SJR 28 as the final order of business.
SENATOR JUDY SALO, prime sponsor of SJR 28, explained the intent of
the resolution is to get information to the Federal Subsistence
Board, asking them to not adopt the proposed subsistence moose
regulations on the Kenai Peninsula and the customary and
traditional use determination for certain communities on the
peninsula.
Senator Salo cautioned that it is likely there will be problems
this fall because of some communities being determined rural and
even more rural communities next to them being determined non-
rural.
Senator Salo said it is her intention to deal with the current
situation on the Kenai Peninsula by getting additional information
to the board to ask them to stay the decision, and she will also be
testifying to the Federal Subsistence Board and has offered written
testimony as well.
Number 190
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass SJR 28 out of committee with
individual recommendations and then withdrew his motion so that
witnesses could testify.
ROBERT BOSWORTH, Director, Division of Subsistence, Department of
Fish & Game, stated he was present to respond to questions.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the department has had any comments from the
communities of Cooper Landing, Ninilchik and Hope, and if there is
strong community support in opposition to the proposed federal
regulations. ROBERT BOSWORTH answered that the department has not
had any communication from those areas, and he suggested they may
be commenting directly to the Federal Subsistence Board.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the department has had experience working
with the Federal Subsistence Board. ROBERT BOSWORTH related the
department has two department liaisons to the board, one from the
wildlife conservation division and one from the subsistence
division. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that he applauds the sponsor
for her good faith in attempting to bring a resolution to the
attention of a Congress that gave us the Federal Subsistence Board,
but he doubts seriously that anyone will pay any attention to us
back there.
SENATOR SALO noted that her office has a petition with 1,800
signatures that were gathered on the peninsula in just over a
week's time after the regulations were promulgated. She pointed
out that many of the signatures were from communities that would
get the subsistence advantage.
Number 275
SENATOR LEMAN asked if under the proposed regulations, the people
living in Cooper Landing, Ninilchik and Hope will have the
opportunity to hunt anywhere or only in the game management unit
they are in. ROBERT BOSWORTH answered that as he understands the
Regional Council proposal that led to the customary and traditional
findings, the findings were specific to a community, a game
management unit and a species. For example, residents of Ninilchik
were found to have customary and traditional use of moose within a
particular game management unit that was adjacent to Ninilchik.
Number 305
SENATOR LEMAN stated the committee would take testimony from
witnesses waiting to testify over the teleconference network.
GARY OSKOLKOFF, a member of the Ninilchik Traditional Council, as
well as a member of the Federal Subsistence Advisory Council for
Southcentral Alaska, testified from Ninilchik.
Mr. Oskolkoff stated that as the resolution is proposed, he thinks
it is going to be very difficult for the Federal Subsistence Board
to follow the suggestion of delaying the implementation, simply
because they are not allowed to under the law without closing down
all of the federal lands on the Kenai Peninsula. If they have to
go against the advisory council's opinion or decision that there is
customary and traditional use and then there is a season there,
they can only deny that for a couple of basic reasons. One is that
it is going to be a detriment to the resource, which would lead to
a complete lockup and then no one would be participating in that
hunt, whether they were subsistence or not.
Mr. Oskolkoff said in the long run, there is an imperfect system,
that being the federal system. There is not a subsistence system
in the state right now and, therefore, we have to go with the
imperfect system.
Mr. Oskolkoff said the resolution makes references to notification
and the citizens not having adequate notice to testify to the
advisory council before this proposal was made, but there were
several meetings over a two-year period that had more than adequate
notice.
Mr. Oskolkoff doesn't believe that under current state law there is
going to be the ability for the state to resume any form of
subsistence management, especially with the deadlock that exists
between some rural and urban legislators, as well as some of the
constituents groups that were formed on one side or the other of
the issue. He suggested there is a need to take a good look at
what the real law is, how it really affects people, and how those
people on the advisory council came up with their final proposal.
Number 376
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Oskolkoff to explain how a state system
could be imposed and how that state system could avoid the
implementation of the federal system. GARY OSKOLKOFF said his
understanding is that it would take a change in the Alaska
Constitution to allow for either a rural preference or some other
type of preference that most of the people of the state of Alaska
would find a consensus on that would meet some of the criteria in
Title 8, ANILCA.
SENATOR TAYLOR stated that Attorney General Botelho has testified
on three different occasions that it doesn't matter what changes
are made to the Constitution, the state does not have the ability
to change any federal law with our state laws or our state
constitution; Title 8, ANILCA, must be changed. He asked Mr.
Oskolkoff what legal authority he was basing his statement on that
it would take a change in the Constitution. GARY OSKOLKOFF said he
was relying on the word passed down to him from the Assistant
Attorney General of the United States through a memorandum. He
added he is glad to listen to all opinions on how the law could or
could not be changed in order to allow for this to happen.
SENATOR TAYLOR said whenever he asks the question of whether the
federal law is supreme over state law and over state constitution,
the answer is always yes and that it can only be changed by the
Federal Congress. He said if, in fact, Mr. Oskolkoff has anybody
who is advising him differently, he would like to see a copy of
that legal advice because it will be of monumental impact if we can
find legal authority that says a state can somehow change federal
law. GARY OSKOLKOFF responded that he is asserting that if there
can be a consensus reached by a majority of Alaskans and a majority
of the interest groups, Alaska's congressional delegation will be
able to take that to Congress and ask Congress to change the law to
allow for that to happen. That is his preface for saying there
could be a change in federal law, although he is not advocating
that at this particular time because he does not think the parties
are close enough together on their discussions, nor does he think
enough discussions are actually taking place between the interest
groups to allow for that.
Number 525
LES PALMER, a resident of Sterling, stated his support for SJR 28
and urged the committee's support as well. He said it is absurd
and outrageous that thousands of Kenai Peninsula residents might
not be able to hunt or fish in their own backyard because a few
think they deserve a special subsistence preference.
Mr. Palmer said the resolution addresses a problem that began in
1990 when the feds designated seven Kenai Peninsula communities
rural. He opposed that decision in writing and he predicted that
making the modern highway-connected communities of the peninsula
eligible for subsistence preference would divide race against race,
neighbor against neighbor and it would make a mockery of the whole
idea of subsistence.
Number 555
DALE BONDURANT of Soldotna stated Alaska's Constitution is probably
the best constitution of any in the United States as far as equal
rights to use our fish and game and here we are trying to
circumvent that constitution and bow over to ANILCA. He said we
are going to have this crammed down our throats until the public
stands up and decides that they are not going to accept it. He
cautioned that if we start messing with the state constitution,
there are going to be some lawsuits and they are going to over the
equal protection rights of the people of Alaska.
Number 585
THEO MATTHEWS, testifying from Soldotna on behalf of the United
Cook Inlet Drift Association stated their support for the
resolution as a statement that ANILCA must be amended to define the
term "rural." He said it is ludicrous for the federal government
to demand any kind of preference, rural or otherwise, and not tell
us what it means. He reiterated the association views the
resolution as an important statement, and he suggested the concept
of fish and game should also be addressed in the resolution.
TAPE 95-57, SIDE B
Number 020
SENATOR LEMAN asked if, in Mr. Matthews' opinion, any of the three
communities named in the resolution qualify as rural. THEO
MATTHEWS answered that they have testified in the past that no
community on the main peninsula qualifies as rural.
Number 030
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the administration has a position on SJR 28,
and ROBERT BOSWORTH acknowledged that they do support it.
Number 050
SENATOR LINCOLN moved and asked unanimous consent that SJR 28 be
passed out of committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR
LEMAN objected to make the statement that he thinks the resolution
ought to be expanded to include some other things, but that could
be done in the next committee of referral. He then removed his
objection and stated SJR 28 was moved out of committee.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
SENATOR LEMAN adjourned the meeting at 4:28 p.m.
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